My 6 year involvement with HIV treatment / 7 year visits to Patong

[Mommy of 5]

As quoted by a Dutch doctor to a NL contact of mine after discovering that his Gf of 4 years was infected and he wasnt.. The doc said that the female to male transfer rate for non violent vaginal sex was approximately 0.02% thats 2 hundreths of one percent !!

That was presumably for the strains found in Europe and perhaps less so for the African and Sub type E strains..

 

[Jimmy R]

Ummmm... quite easily actually. If sub-Saharan Africa has a population of say 1 billion people and a further 3.1 million people became infected in 2004, then there would be a perceneforum.xxxe increase infection rate of around 0.0031%.


erm... no that would mean an increase of .31%

 

[dantheman]

Sure DJ Dave.. I am perfectly ready to admit whan I am wrong.. Life is a learning process.. Thing is I dont go making up Stats to fit my opinion and I try to find out where my stats come from when I do use them.. Big difference between asking a questions with "Is this the way it is, cause this is how I understand it" than saying "This IS how it is with 52.5% chances of etc etc"..

As to non monogomous I mean that ALL partners would have to be giving up non monogomous sex obviously !!

 

[Fighterinferno07]

I don't think that i am overly experienced at a whole lot actually.
But I would find it hard to believe that any one over about the age of 10 in a first world country would be aware of this issue and I think nearly every adult every where would be aware of this issue.



I am not upset.



be careless, Oh so fargin funny. So you have assumed that I go bare back. I do not recall stating that. What I was getting at is we are adults, we are aware of the risks, if we choose to take these risks, it is the individual’s choice and no one else’s. The individual will have to pay the fiddler if he gets it wrong.

 

[mee]

I've just got around to reading this thread, start to finish...feck I'm tired now.

For my two cents...No one cared when aids first appeared in the late 70's early 80's. It was a gay disease. Then along comes Rock Hudson (who contracted through gay sex). The lifestyle in Hollywood, Broadway and show business in general was and is rife with homosexual and bisexual encounters as well as intraveinous drug use. AIDS and HIV was becoming more and more rampant among the glamorous people.

Along come several celebrities including Elizabeth Taylor et al and a previously obscure disease effecting a small segment of the population started to get a disproportionate share of publicity.

Statistics have always been used by both sides of any argument. Also the added problem in conducting any surveys is that a man who has contracted HIV may or may not admit to a homosexual encounter or intraveinous drug use. Thus he gets marked down as female to male transmission which may or may not be the case.

I lean toward LivinLos on this one. I know of no cases of female to male transmission personally. Cases such as Magic Johnson I have my doubts about as I'm not sure he would admit to either a homosexual encounter or drug use (narcotic or performance enhancing).

To my understanding, HIV transmission requires the transfer of white cells, present in semen and blood. So basically, blood to blood contact or semen to blood contact. Now it may be possible that she has vaginal tearing that I'm not aware of, but I will certainly know if my d1ck has a cut on it. And if my d1ck is bleeding, it ain't going anywhere!!

Finally, it is my opinion that the vast majority of BM's are of above average intelligence, well travelled and understand the risks. The warning post would be better served somewhere else where the people aren't as bright...Ireland

Actually just kidding about that Ally.

 

[S L]

Please dont put me in the camp that thinks men cant get it from women.. Thats not my belief at all.. I do think that the female to male transmission ratio is lower than the media will portray but its still a significant risk.

 

[NO6664ME]

That the whole point, you are as much at risk having unprotected sex at home as you are in Thailand. Statistics mean jack shit, you play bare back and you are at risk.

 

[Samantha Paranoia]

my gf knows already two friends, who worked bar with her in Phuket and died from AIDS

 

[Janet W]

I don't put you into that camp, nor am I in that camp. My point is that female to male transmission requires special circumstances or a combination of factors while male to female transmission does not. I do not contend that it does not happen, only that it is less likely than if a person is recieving the fluids rather than dispensing them.

I would be more afraid sticking my hand in a hospital garbage can than having normal sexual relations with a female. That being said I have no desire to test this theory.

 

[Pompal 09.]

LIL, I thought long and hard about whether to post that last reply, but I'm sure you'll agree it was a tough one to let slide. For what it's worth I never disagreed with your argument that statistics (and hearsay) can be manipulated to prove anything, that is a given.

Anyways, no-one has been proved neither right nor wrong here. The best thing is that there has been a debate about it (STDs) and people who don't know the joint can at least make up their own minds about whether to go bareback or sit trembling at the sight of the bearded clam and all it's evils. FFS, if everyone listened to me or Phoenix or eurogirlinthai there'd be a whole lot of mystery amongst the BG community as to why all of a sudden all the farang now only seem to want to just jerk off while they (the BGs) stand in the corner on the other side of the room naked and talking dirty. Hehe.

I'd say between us we've done a great community service for which I think we owe each other a beer or two (maybe three). I'm booking my next trip today for mid-Nov to late-Dec. I'll PM you and see what we can do about catching up one day. My only concession being I don't want to talk about STDs. Cricket, football, politics, Iraq...... anything but STDs. It's starting to feel like I actually have one.

Peace and out.

 

[Ciao Bella is Love Drunk]

Nice post.. Look forward to that beer..

 

[comander bioch]

It's been a few days since ive visited this post so i guess its about time i should clarify a few things.

First of all, yes i did make a mistake, i was supposed to type 'south/ south east asia has the fastest growing hiv community in the world' (at 6.1million)as opposed to 'thailand' - so thank you those people for pointing out that innacurate statement.Thailand just happens to have the highest number of HIV cases in South / South East Asia at just under 1/6 of that figure.

It seems that some people appear to be missing the point though. DJ Dave, Eurogirl and myself (as well as a few others) are trying to convince you to consider the consequences of not wearing a rubber welly. We are not saying to you that you shouldnt have your fun. I regularly go on field visits to hositals to visit patients with HIV and see regularly what effects, not just on a physical level but also mentally as well - and trust me, if you switched positions with me for a short time, you would think that using a little protection was very little compromise if it could prevent the possibilty of acquiring the virus.

You know, it doesnt benefit me coming on to this site and preaching about how wrong it is to take such risks, but i do think it would be wrong not to share knowledge. Some people have replied to my original post and keep re-emphasising the fact that its their own choice whether they do or do not use condoms. That may well be the case but your choices may not just affect yourself - unknowingly you could be affecting a number of bar girls that you thought 'oh f*ck it' with, at that crucial time.

Regardsless of the HIV situation anyway, which is relatively low in terms of the number of other sti's around. Hepatitis rates are very high in thailand as it is found in raw fish as well as in the water. we know 2 types of hepatitis are incurable/preventable - this would mean that your heavy drinking days would be pretty much over (or it would be pretty stupid if you continued to drink heavily). Herpes is another incurrable STI which is also high in Thailand which would give you outbreaks of recurring blisters all over your pride and joy, for the rest of your life. And guess what, herpes attacks usually happen when stress levels are high or when you dont get enough rest or sleep - i guess an outbreak would be pretty much guaranteed when you are in patong then.

Why on earth do people keep making these stupid analagies between the possibility of getting HIV and dying in a motorbike accident or equivalent? Well my friends, there is one subtle difference - 1 is preventable, and 1 is not. I am astounded by your weak justifications / reasoning for your choices. Oh and HIV is much longer, more painful death.

Anyway, my message is loud and clear - Take care of yourselves and the girls. You both indulge in illicit sex by mutual consent and both parties enjoy it (be it in most cases im sure, for different reasons) - let's keep it that way!

 

[MangleZauSa]

0.02% is 1 in 5000 odds. Although those seem like pretty good odds, they are not good at all if you were to be the that 1 guy.

What it means is that some guys are going to get it!! It is like a lottery. The more tickets you buy the better the chance that you will be the "lucky" winner who gets the short straw(sorry about the mixed metaphor, I couldn't help myself):embrassed .

 

[dark angel]

I wonder what the outlook for the future is.
With Thaksin Shinawatra seriously reducing funding for the HIV - Awarenessprogramms and the 100 % Condom - Campaign in Thailand and at the same time President Bush all but cancelling aid for the same programms in Africa (in fact he´s only sending substantial aid to "Chastity Before Marriage" - Programms, which is of course complete und utterly painfull bullshi*) things do look somewhat bleak. Uganda, for example, one of the few african countries which was able to get a grip on the epidemic in the 90s, has since this cut gone back down the drain.

On the other hand, if we do completely believe all these predicitions, statistics and other official mumbo-jumbo - then we´re all dead. Or if not absolutely dead yet then at least becoming deader by the day.
I guess the baseline is, be careful yet remember that life in a very real sense is like Russian Roulette.
I mean you can faithfully wrap up your tool every time you go for a dip in the pond and still you can die in a planecrash or a tsunami or a terrorist attack or some maniac can come creeping up your window some night with the stated motivation of cutting you up into nice, handy pieces - it´s all in the cocktail of our most puny existance.

I wish I was living in the 70s. Free Love and the sense that you can screw every girl anywhere in the world without any inhibition or fear. Just think about it - the whole world one mass orgy. I think that´s what the Hippies really had in mind when they were talking about world peace.

 

[blueflamex171]

Glad you cleared that up.



Maybe you are missing the point? Have you read all the replies or just skipped through them? If you have something to say then the forum is open to all, but if you preach (a word you used in this reply) then many will ignore the message and react to the tone.

Do you assume that everybody who visits Patong never reads a paper or sees the news? We are well aware that there are infections out there that would change our lives. Do you seriously believe that one person who has read all the posts on this thread will change their ways because you say they should? No, me either.




Please tell me which one is not preventable? If you don't want HIV then don't have sex, use drugs or do boys up the Gary Glitter. If you don't want to crash a motorbike then don't get on one. Did I miss something? The point that others are making, if you could get off your hobby horse for long enough to take it in, is that we are all going to die one way or the other anyway, and I have not seen a pleasant way to get dead yet.



I agree with your message and, for the record, I do not indulge in un-protected sex (or do/get done up the Gary Glitter by anybody). The point I, and many others, was making is that we are all adults making reasoned choices. Your message, whilst perfectly admirable, is seen as patronising nonsense of the sort dished out by disconnected school teachers who have no real idea what goes on in the playground.

 

[alew]

Does anyone know a HIV infected straight male ??? Not friend of a friend of a friend but actually know for sure..

I only ask as I also have met and know of a few females.. I hear stories of infected females.. I dont know any infected guys at all.. Just a statistical abberation ??

 

[sugarcoated]

For that guy it was pretty amazing.. 3+ years of normal relationship.. sex all ways.. She even got pretty sick before they got her on the meds and dertected it.. When the viral load is high thats when its much more risky I would assume..

He was just assuming that he had it..

 

[Pompal 09.]

Good assumption! He was one very, very, extremely lucky fellow!!

 

[Pompal 09.]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[K D]

One assumes the girl is Dutch? Not an ex-Thai BG?